Andy Whitman: “Falling on the Sword”

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9 Comments

1. neil 2 years, 5 months ago

   “And maybe, just maybe, we will be willing to serve in the prophetic role to which we have been called; standing apart from political systems, and working toward a social agenda that values loving and serving people…”

   I wish I could put why I feel this way into words and perhaps I should try before I make comments, but there is a part of me that feels that a social agenda is not really a part of our calling. I think we should reform ourselves firstly, to that end. Loving and serving others seems to be the major, if not only, aspect of our “working out our salvation.” (This, by the way, is a challenge I direct squarely at myself.)

   If there is a social agenda to be addressed, however, let it be within the Church, where the Kingdom of God should be ever more manifest. But a social agenda for society? There’s something about that that seems like another attempt by Christians to build by means of human effort and reasoning something that’s already been built by God, by Divine means that we can join ourselves to. Do we need a corporate agenda (ie, do we need the world to be on the same page with us) before we begin to live in the Kingdom of God? Seems like a distraction to me.

   I could be be terribly wrong.

   Thanks for this post Jason, I don’t read Whitman, but I’m always inspired by your references to his writing.

2. RT 2 years, 5 months ago

   “And maybe, just maybe, we will be willing to serve in the prophetic role to which we have been called; standing apart from political systems, and working toward a social agenda that values loving and serving people—individuals unborn and aged and everywhere in between—as the means by which the Kingdom of God might be advanced.”

   I disagree we the idea that Christians are called to stand apart from political systems. As believers, we’re called to serve Christ in every possible sphere of creation. Politics cannot be our savior, true, but we definitely need to be involved in the political scene.

3. Jon Anderson 2 years, 5 months ago

   President John Adams and the U.S. Senate in 1797:

   “[T]he government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion. . . .” (From “The Treaty with Tripoli,” approved by President Adams and unanimously ratified by the Senate.)
   ________________

   President James Madison (“Father of the Constitution” and principal author of the First Amendment):

   “Strongly guarded . . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States. . . .”

   “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”

4. Jason 2 years, 5 months ago

   @Neil: Well, perhaps “social agenda” isn’t the best term to use. But if Christians are living prophetically in the culture around them, there will most certainly be a social impact. After all, we are supposed to be “salt and light” in the world around us, preserving and enlightening the cultures in which we live.

   (By the way, I’m still working on an entry about art and spirituality in response to one of your earlier comments. I’ve just been a little busy lately…)

   @Rebecca: You’re absolutely right. If God is truly sovereign over every aspect of life—and I think most Christians worth their orthodoxy would agree with that—than we certainly need to reflect that. Which means that we need to be active in politics, just like we need to be active in the arts, education, science, etc.

   However, I think Andy’s statement stems from a frustration that, within the last 30 years or so, Christians in this country have become far too reliant on politics as the only way to affect change in society—and the result has been a Church that has made an awful lot of compromises. As someone once said, whenever church and government become too closely intertwined, it is always the church that suffers.

   There’s a difference between being politically active and aware, and being politically dependent. I don’t think Andy is arguing against the former—after all, he is planning to vote—but I think he’s definitely arguing against the latter.

   @Jon: Thanks for sharing those quotes. I’ve seen them before, and I wish more folks would see them. Reading them, I wonder why so many folks get so confused—for lack of a better term—when it comes to the ideas behind the separation of church and state (which, contrary to so many peoples’ thoughts, is a good thing).

   That being said, I’m equally confused and frustrated when folks use quotes like these to try and say that religion should never, ever enter the political arena. That Christians—and other religous folks—should never express their beliefs when it comes to the realm of politics, as if politics and religion are completely incompatible and should never, ever mix.

5. Jason 2 years, 5 months ago

   Oh, and make sure that you read the comments on Andy’s article. There’s some interesting discussion there.

6. neil 2 years, 5 months ago

   Fair reply, Jason. Yes, “agenda” I believe is the troublesome word. I would agree that Christians should be as smart as they can be about engaging the culture around them, in political, social and other aspects, but an agenda for changing culture by any means can distract us from our purpose here. Social impact will happen, as you said, by the way we live. Agendas, on the other hand, seem to inspire new “denominations.”

   I will now read the comments to Andy’s post. thankls for engaging. And I’m looking forward to your thoughts on art & spirit. You’ve been busy? What, a new baby or something? You can borrow a 3 year-old to add to the mix, if you’d like.

7. Jon Anderson 2 years, 5 months ago

   “(You’re) equally confused and frustrated when folks use quotes like these to try and say that religion should never, ever enter the political arena.”

   That wasn’t my reason for posting those quotes. It was simply a reminder. Obviously, religion will always enter the political arena because most Americans are religious people. However, America was founded based upon a concept of freedom in religion. For certain politicians and pundits to suggest America is a Christian nation, by definition, is rubbish. This Whitman fellow’s blog posting really spoke to me. I too long for the day I don’t have to justify my Christian heritage by explaining to people we’re not all intolerant and narrow-minded ambassadors for Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition.

8. Jason 2 years, 5 months ago

   Sorry Jon, that comment wasn’t directed at you, personally.

9. jon anderson 2 years, 5 months ago

   no worries.. please keep posting things that make me think, along with your usual great music and movie stuff

   I dig Opuszine

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